<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1543</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	12/21/99 10:36:07 AM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Tuesday, December 21 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1543<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Terra and the US in IY 1110 (was various)<BR>
Re: Far Future Terra (was: Vanishing Wetlands...)<BR>
Not ot revive the gun threads, but..<BR>
Long distance trade and the size of the Imperium<BR>
Re: ..and it comes with a fresher!  (OT)<BR>
Re: technology advances<BR>
RE: survival kit<BR>
Re: Long distance trade and the size of the Imperium<BR>
RE: ..and it comes with a fresher!  (OT)<BR>
RE: Traveller roadshows<BR>
RE: War of 1812<BR>
Re: OT<BR>
Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
RE: Rebellious Attitudes <BR>
CT to T4 power conversion (Was: Re: Asteroid Mining)<BR>
Unconscionable gun use (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1517)<BR>
Re: War of 1812<BR>
Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
Re: Rebellious Attitudes (was: RE: the north american union) <BR>
RE: the north american union<BR>
Re: Far Future Terra<BR>
RE: CT to T4 power conversion (Was: Re: Asteroid Mining)<BR>
RE: Traveller roadshows<BR>
Re: [OT] War of 1812 <BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:52:55 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: Terra and the US in IY 1110 (was various)<BR>
<BR>
Looking at the map in "Solomani and Aslan" one definately gets the<BR>
impression of a sea level rise and/or massive canal works.  Much of<BR>
northern Quebec seems to be gone, for instance, and there are big new seas<BR>
in Siberia and Africa.  Actually, this map is a bit screwed up.  If you<BR>
actually assemble it into a polyhedron things in NA wouldn't match up!<BR>
<BR>
As for population centers there appears to be mega-cities in Mexico,<BR>
Buenos Ares, London, Berlin, Cairo, Moscow, Beijing, Tokyo, South Africa,<BR>
Sydney (Sydney?), and Antarctica (something called Shackleton).  <BR>
<BR>
They seem to have saved the rain-forest and reversed the desertification<BR>
of Africa as well.<BR>
<BR>
Regarding what the US looks like at this time, there appear to be massive<BR>
population concentrations around Detroit and the East Coast.  The<BR>
Northwest is still heavily forested and there is a major starport in the<BR>
rockies called Paulo.<BR>
<BR>
As for the lasting of political entities and cultures, I'm pretty sure<BR>
divisions will remain, but things will be much more fragmented.  I see<BR>
earth as a future version of Jerusalem: Highly important historically and<BR>
politically, fought over constantly (in various violent and non-violent<BR>
ways), over-crowded and a little run-down.  Pockets of preserved<BR>
wilderness remain, but most of the surface is (or was at one time at<BR>
least) devoted to agriculture and other human-centered activities. <BR>
Variations in skin-tone are diminished, with very pale and very dark<BR>
people being rarer, but race is far from being eliminated due to<BR>
back-lashes against homogenization.  Still, the dominant ethnic conflicts<BR>
are between Solomani (when they arent' quibbling amonst themselves) and<BR>
Vilani/Mixed individuals.  (All IMTU IMO, comments welcomed)_<BR>
<BR>
BTW, I only skimmed the thread on Zhodani and Vilani races, but it occurs<BR>
to me that just about every pic I've seen of either of these groups<BR>
portrays a white person.  Did they have suns with lower UV or something?<BR>
Or do we just have to accept that it's a marketing/artist's bias kinda<BR>
thing?  Actually, the latter seems like the necessary explanation, as<BR>
most Solomani are portrayed as white also...<BR>
<BR>
Charles C.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:45:17 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Far Future Terra (was: Vanishing Wetlands...)<BR>
<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>>><BR>
My guess is (if you can take the I:E map seriously) that there hasn't<BR>
actually been any huge rise in sea level, but that there *have* been some<BR>
massive hydrological-engineering projects which have submerged certain<BR>
areas.  Why Egypt and Siberia?  Your guess is as good as mine. . .<BR>
>>>>>>>>>><BR>
Alternate guess: there *has* been a huge rise in sea level, and Egypt<BR>
and Siberia were the most economically depressed regions of the<BR>
Earth while the rise was at it's worst. Almost everywhere else<BR>
built dikes, Egypt and Siberia couldn't afford to and got wet instead.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:04:49<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Not ot revive the gun threads, but..<BR>
<BR>
Since we were discussing the morality of pasintball I thought some of you<BR>
might find this interesting:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1999/12/21<BR>
/MN88329.DTL<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 17:09:02 -0000<BR>
From: Brian Caball <boc@raidtec.ie><BR>
Subject: Long distance trade and the size of the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
The talk of the war of 1812 and thinking of British colonies of that era has<BR>
got me thinking....<BR>
<BR>
Why is the Imperium as large as it is, and how could it be considered to be<BR>
a whole? It takes (correct me If I am wrong) a year or two at maximum jump<BR>
to go from the spinward marches to the Solomani rim. The Imperium exists to<BR>
facilitate free trade... however, few worlds would ever trade with worlds<BR>
more than a subsector away. Sectors would surely exist almost entirely in<BR>
isolation. The cost of transporting goods from one end of a sector to<BR>
another would be phenomenal (if monthly payments had to be met... I suppose<BR>
not a problem for the megacorporations...)<BR>
<BR>
Either way, trade from Britain to the colonies (and later independent<BR>
states) in the age of sail was not only common but vital for the economy.<BR>
How frequent is trade over these distances in the Imperium? I would imagine<BR>
it would have to be carried out by huge vessels that were fully paid off. <BR>
<BR>
- -Brian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 12:09:50 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: ..and it comes with a fresher!  (OT)<BR>
<BR>
I feel an adventure scenario coming on.... "Traveller House"  (visions of<BR>
Zho mingling at the Toga Party are dancing through my head).<BR>
<BR>
- -Crusty<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> No smoking, No drugs, Booze allowed, but if you pass out Kirsten and I<BR>
have<BR>
> perverse senses of humor.  No pets, alas.  Landlord is a really great guy<BR>
> named Ng (the Merciless)<BR>
><BR>
> I'm announcing here because it I figured that it would be nice to get some<BR>
> gamers under the same roof, and I know we have a few SFBA residents.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:01:54 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: technology advances<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> I beg yer *pardon*!  Even under the new, improved DSM-IV, I'm not<BR>
>> technically nuts.<BR>
<BR>
DSM-IV is a *lot* "looser" than DSM-III with regards to being "kinky". <BR>
<BR>
Basicly, If it doesn't bother *you* and doesn't interfere with your<BR>
being able to function in society, you don't need treatment.<BR>
<BR>
So sorry folks, but while Kenji may be *weird*, he ain't *crazy*. <BR>
<BR>
And he's *hardly* been all *that* strange. Just stop and consider the<BR>
sort of things that high TL medical tech allows. Things that'd turn<BR>
many modern day BDSM tyypes green with envy, and John Q. Public (now<BR>
*or* then) just plain *green*. <BR>
<BR>
Being that this list isn't XXX rated, and most of you *really* don't<BR>
want to know, I'll refrain from listing any possiblitities.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 12:20:44 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: survival kit<BR>
<BR>
Just a couple of ideas:<BR>
<BR>
IMTU there are Water Condensers available, units that accumulate<BR>
	water out of almost any atmosphere.<BR>
Inertial Locator<BR>
Electric Light (brighter than cold light sticks)<BR>
Snowshoes<BR>
Sun Goggles<BR>
Animal Repellant<BR>
Collapsable Shovel<BR>
Fast Drug + Oxygen Tanks<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> The Imperial Standard Survival Kit (TL12)<BR>
><BR>
> 1 x Filter/Respirator<BR>
> 8 x 500ml water containers<BR>
> 30 x Cold light sticks<BR>
> 1 x Commlink/Beacon<BR>
> 4 x Flares<BR>
> 1 x Tarpaulin<BR>
> 1 x Cord (2mm x 300m)<BR>
> 1 x Rope (1cm x 50m)<BR>
> 1 x Climbing Hammer<BR>
> 24 x Climbing Spikes<BR>
> 1 x First Aid Kit<BR>
> 1 x Machete<BR>
> 1 x Binoculars<BR>
> 1 x Sheltersuit<BR>
> 1 x Heatpump<BR>
> 1 x Water Purifier<BR>
> 1 x Raft, Inflatable<BR>
> Miscellaneous : Compass, Fishhooks & Line, Matches etc.<BR>
> 1 x Survival Manual (A microflim reader, very high-tech)<BR>
> 1 x Survival Rifle (Listed as Rifle -2, I assume it's a 5mm)<BR>
> 1 x Carrying Case<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 18:20:59 +0000<BR>
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <carlos.alos-ferrer@univie.ac.at><BR>
Subject: Re: Long distance trade and the size of the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
Brian Caball wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> The Imperium exists to<BR>
> facilitate free trade... however, few worlds would ever trade with worlds<BR>
> more than a subsector away. Sectors would surely exist almost entirely in<BR>
> isolation. The cost of transporting goods from one end of a sector to<BR>
> another would be phenomenal (if monthly payments had to be met... I suppose<BR>
> not a problem for the megacorporations...)<BR>
 <BR>
> Either way, trade from Britain to the colonies (and later independent<BR>
> states) in the age of sail was not only common but vital for the economy.<BR>
> How frequent is trade over these distances in the Imperium? I would imagine<BR>
> it would have to be carried out by huge vessels that were fully paid off. <BR>
<BR>
Even if we forget the freighter long-distance trade routes tended by <BR>
megacorporations like Tukera, there is a fundamental difference <BR>
between the Britain/Colonies situation and the Imperium: while the <BR>
Atlantic Ocean was a discrete jump between Britain and the Colonies, <BR>
there is no such "jump" on the Imperium (with the exception, maybe, <BR>
of the Rift/Corridor area separating the Domain of Deneb).<BR>
<BR>
The imperium is basically a *connected,* continuous area of <BR>
reasonable stellar density. Even if one world (A) only trades with <BR>
worlds up to a subsector apart (B) , those worlds (B) trade with <BR>
other worlds (C) a subsector apart from (B), and *two* subsectors <BR>
apart from (C)... from the individual world point of view, trade may <BR>
be local. But when you aggregate it, it is *not* true that sectors <BR>
are isolated. Subsector A of a sector will trade with subsector M of <BR>
the sector coreward, with subsector D of the sector spinward, and <BR>
with subsector P of the sector spinward-coreward... there is simply <BR>
no place inside the Imperium where you can trace a line and say that <BR>
no significant trade is conducted between both sides.<BR>
<BR>
Carlos Alos-Ferrer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 17:22:19 -0000<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: ..and it comes with a fresher!  (OT)<BR>
<BR>
Crusty Sword wrote:<BR>
> I feel an adventure scenario coming on.... "Traveller House" <BR>
> (visions of Zho mingling at the Toga Party are dancing through<BR>
> my head).<BR>
<BR>
I can just see it: a  Vargr  stuffs  his  mouth  full  of  mashed<BR>
potato, then punches his jowles sending out a white  spray.  "I'm<BR>
a zit, geddit?"  And before anyone  can  react  the  Vargr  yells<BR>
"Food Fight!" and chaos ensues.<BR>
<BR>
The "no pets" rule sounds very sensible to me!<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:29:39 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller roadshows<BR>
<BR>
Really? Where in the north? I'm in Lancashire, near Rochdale.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of i Steve<BR>
Sent: 20 December 1999 20:50<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Traveller roadshows<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hell if anyone's running Trav in Orlando next October count me<BR>
in...I'll<BR>
even bring the pizza....lol<BR>
<BR>
iSteve<BR>
<BR>
PS anytime anyone's passing through the North of England, give me a<BR>
yell....<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:42:14 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
In fairness to both sides, the war was a balls up (by both sides) from<BR>
beginning to end. If I recall my history correctly, the Americans (in<BR>
the form of 'shopkeeper' militia) invaded Canada and grabbed some<BR>
land - at one point claiming a 'major' victory over half a dozen<BR>
trappers in a permanent camp. The British promptly sent regular<BR>
troops - who took the land back in no short order - and 'blockaded'<BR>
the US ports (basically an excuse for outrageous piracy). America then<BR>
sent *their* regular troops into Canada and pushed the British<BR>
regulars out - notably at York and a string of frontier forts - only<BR>
to find out that the Indian 'troops' (including, bizarrely, the ones<BR>
'loyal' to the French, who the British were supposed to be fighting in<BR>
the first place) virtually destroyed the supply lines and meant they<BR>
had to give the gains back. In the meantime, the British ships -<BR>
basically just merchantmen with a few guns - came up against American<BR>
warships and came off worst (for the most part). To bring an end to<BR>
it, the British burned Washington to the ground and attacked New<BR>
Orleans under the very mistaken impression that only the American<BR>
French would defend it. Having been beaten to a bloody pulp (they<BR>
refused to retreat at first) by the massed forces of most of the<BR>
American army, they realised that they had utterly underestimated the<BR>
national feeling of the still new country and promptly negotiated a<BR>
weird peace just to get their troops back to mainland Europe. Total<BR>
shambles.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: So how would that fit in with Mileu 0, as the Imperium is<BR>
growing. For example, what would have happened had the 'Imperial' Navy<BR>
met both the Vilani and a pocket empire at the same time, and found<BR>
the two were trading outside the Imperial economy?<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Bruce<BR>
Johnson<BR>
Sent: 20 December 1999 21:03<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Macintosh wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> A quick outline would be<BR>
> (0) Britain is conscripting british (and occasional American)<BR>
soliders out<BR>
> of British ships. America doesn't like this. Also, Britain is<BR>
blocking<BR>
> American trade with France (more legitimately).<BR>
<BR>
Well, there _was_ the minor problem that the British Navy was also<BR>
stopping and searching US-flagged merchants, and pretty much<BR>
impressing<BR>
anyone they felt like.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 12:38:40 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: OT<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/20/99 5:11:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, pould@netcom.ca <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< One question to my US friends, it has to do with Benedict Arnold.  I seem<BR>
 to recall reading somewhere that when the US government issued a stamp<BR>
 using a famous painting on it, they "brushed out" Benedict Arnold, who was<BR>
 in the original painting. >><BR>
<BR>
Here's a wierder one. There is a stature of Bendedict Arnold's LEG!!! I think <BR>
it was at Oriskany or Herkimer in upstate New York. Anyway he was wounded, <BR>
and the statue was erected after the war. Therefore only Arnold's <BR>
pre-treasonous heroism was honored - his battle wound (in the leg...)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:53:17 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
>From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
<BR>
>Not only that, but we've also taken over your <BR>
>entertainment industry. Some of our agents in the <BR>
>field: Celine Dion. Dan Aykroyd. William Shatner.Alex<BR>
<BR>
I knew we should've let Patton kick your butts back to<BR>
Moscow in '45 ... oh, sorry, wrong enemy.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 10:01:45 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Rebellious Attitudes <BR>
<BR>
>From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
>Subject: RE: Rebellious Attitudes (was: RE: the north<BR>
<BR>
>american union)<BR>
<BR>
>Nope - I just want my government to follow the laws -<BR>
<BR>
>just like I have to.   Is that so wrong?<BR>
<BR>
It depends.  Asking the government of the Soviet Union<BR>
or the Solomani Confederation to follow the laws on<BR>
its books could get you sent to the gulag.  You would<BR>
be called an opportunist for making that argument,<BR>
comrade, so watch out.  <BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, the Imperial government is not a<BR>
government of laws, so it just follows its own<BR>
procedures at its own discretion.  Individual citizens<BR>
are rarely aggrieved by Imperial action, although<BR>
member states, starship owners, and corporations<BR>
typically are, because they function within the web of<BR>
Imperial regulations.  In my Traveller universe,<BR>
review of administrative action is usually available.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:57:13 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: CT to T4 power conversion (Was: Re: Asteroid Mining)<BR>
<BR>
Can someone conferm or correct the following:<BR>
1 EP = 1 Mw<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 5:35 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Asteroid Mining (Was: Re: Mars exploration)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 04:54 AM 12/20/99 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> >Thank you Ken, www.permanent.com is an excellent web<BR>
> >site for Real Life(tm) asteroid mining information.  Would<BR>
> >whoever else posted in response to my query please<BR>
> >repost that URL with the more RPGable stuff?  I seem to<BR>
> >have lost the original post.<BR>
> ><BR>
>         Hi, Jason!<BR>
>         I think that might have been me.  URL is in my .SIG....  Pick the<BR>
> [House Rules] button, and its at the bottom of the page.  Let me know what<BR>
> you think.  I have done a couple of play-tests with it and it seems to<BR>
work<BR>
> fairly well from both "pay the bills" and actually role-playing<BR>
> opportunities perspectives.  Let me know what you think.<BR>
><BR>
>         --Michel<BR>
> -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
> Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
> ICQ # 31172292<BR>
> "Reality Error in Progress....<BR>
> ....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"<BR>
> -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
> Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:<BR>
> "http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"<BR>
> Into Traveller?  Check Out:<BR>
> "http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"<BR>
> -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
> ***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
> -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:58:39 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Unconscionable gun use (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1517)<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU> wrote:<BR>
> I sat on a jury and helped convict a couple of young idiots who did<BR>
> just that, pointing a gun at someone, because it would 'scare' them.<BR>
><BR>
> They could have gotten up to five years for that one, as they were<BR>
> convicted on two counts each.<BR>
><BR>
> The question mainly is why was his illegal and threatening behavior<BR>
> [ignored? overlooked? not punished?] for so long?<BR>
><BR>
> Arizona has quite liberal gun laws; concealed carry with permits, open<BR>
> carry just about anywhere (and many people do), but you'll get pounced<BR>
> upon by the cops for waving it around like that.<BR>
<BR>
Having lived in the uS Southwest most of my life, I am<BR>
accustomed to seeing weapons, long ones, short ones,<BR>
smooth ones, rifled ones, sharp ones, blunt ones.  One<BR>
of the things that all the areas of the Southwest that I have<BR>
lived in had in common was that you don't point a weapon,<BR>
any weapon, at someone without cause and get away with<BR>
it.  You leave it in its holster, sheath, sling, ect. until you are<BR>
ready to use it and when you unholster, unsheath, unsling,<BR>
unetc. it, everyone assumes that you are going to use it.<BR>
If you use it for anything other than self defense or to kill<BR>
meat (or to practice for one of those), you have committed<BR>
a crime and will probably be punished.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
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__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:02:12 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/21/99 7:30:28 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< To the shores of Tripoli" refers to US operations against Barbary Coast<BR>
 pirate states well  before the War of 1812, that could only be carried<BR>
 out since the US was at peace with Britain at the time.<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
a little trivia. During this campaign, Admiral Nelson observed the American <BR>
"Super-Frigates", and (paraphrasing a half-remembered quote...); "Mark my <BR>
words, I see nothing but trouble in the future from those ships"... D--m; I <BR>
wish I could remember where the heck I saw this quote...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 10:07:24 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
>From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
...<BR>
>> Not only that, but we've also taken over your entertainment industry. Some<BR>
...<BR>
>> Shania Twain. Leslie Nielsen. And the recently-late Hank Snow. <BR>
><BR>
>I'm sorry, I missed something; what do these people have to do with<BR>
>entertainment, again?<BR>
<BR>
  What, you've never seen "Forbidden Planet"? :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:01:48 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Rebellious Attitudes (was: RE: the north american union) <BR>
<BR>
> > -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Dear Folks -<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Danny wrote:<BR>
> > >The British burned the White House and the Capitol.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >We, unfortunately, rebuilt them.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > I take it this means you are anti-Fed?<BR>
> <BR>
> Nope - I just want my government to follow the laws - just like I have to.  <BR>
> <BR>
> Is that so wrong?<BR>
<BR>
According to a Senate decision in the last year, yes.<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 10:08:26 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: the north american union<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com>Subject: <BR>
<BR>
>	In the last century, we have had countries <BR>
>that were at war with each other become steady <BR>
>friends.  Why?  Does anyone see the 3I ever<BR>
>becoming friends with a polity that they had a war <BR>
>with?<BR>
<BR>
I am reminded of Tom Lehrer's song about the Multi<BR>
Lateral Force, which was an idea in the 1960s for the<BR>
defense of Europe that would have put nuclear weapons<BR>
under the control of West Germany.  In his<BR>
introduction to the song, he notes that MLF is touted<BR>
as a good idea because it is supported by our<BR>
"traditional allies, the Germans", even though opposed<BR>
by "our recent allies, the French", which brings<BR>
considerable laughter from the audience.<BR>
<BR>
I have no doubt that the various great and small<BR>
powers in the Far Future exist in a flux of changing<BR>
alliances.  For example, between Frontier Wars, the<BR>
Imperium and the Zhodani Consulate probably cooperate<BR>
on curbing Vargr piracy.  Local nobles probably have<BR>
considerable discretion to make temporary to ad hoc<BR>
agreements with extra-Imperial neighbors, even if the<BR>
general situation between the Imperium and the other<BR>
power is hostile.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
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Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 12:09:19 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Far Future Terra<BR>
<BR>
JFZeigler@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> My guess is (if you can take the I:E map seriously) that there hasn't<BR>
> actually been any huge rise in sea level, but that there *have* been some<BR>
> massive hydrological-engineering projects which have submerged certain<BR>
> areas.  Why Egypt and Siberia?  Your guess is as good as mine. . .<BR>
<BR>
I vaguely remember hearing about some Soviet-era ideas to flood Siberia<BR>
to try to moderate the climate.  Don't recall any references.  Barrier <BR>
island erosion will be fairly severe by then too.  For example, Cape Cod<BR>
itself is predicted to erode away in only 5000 years -- it's a transient<BR>
feature, a 15000 year old glacial moraine.<BR>
<BR>
> thinking that virtually *none* of the nation-states of the late 20th Century<BR>
> still exist in any significant form in the Third Imperium era.<BR>
<BR>
Marc Miller's _Luna_ article seems to suggest that Terran government is<BR>
based around continental "provinces", with Luna counted as one of the<BR>
continents.  <BR>
<BR>
  -- Steve Bonneville <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 18:11:58 -0000<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: CT to T4 power conversion (Was: Re: Asteroid Mining)<BR>
<BR>
Jason wrote:<BR>
> Can someone conferm or correct the following:<BR>
> 1 EP = 1 Mw<BR>
<BR>
No.  1 EP = 250 Mw<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 18:21:55 GMT<BR>
From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller roadshows<BR>
<BR>
>Really? Where in the north? I'm in Lancashire, near Rochdale.<BR>
<BR>
Doncaster mate, the right side of the Pennines  *grin*<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:29:41 -0700<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@ctaz.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] War of 1812 <BR>
<BR>
> >From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
> ...<BR>
> >> Not only that, but we've also taken over your entertainment industry. Some<BR>
> ...<BR>
> >> Shania Twain. Leslie Nielsen. And the recently-late Hank Snow. <BR>
> ><BR>
> >I'm sorry, I missed something; what do these people have to do with<BR>
> >entertainment, again?<BR>
> <BR>
>   What, you've never seen "Forbidden Planet"? :)<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Nielsen was better in his comedy stuff.  He did a movie about 25 yrs ago <BR>
whose name escapes me, but one scene I remember is him pouring a bottle of <BR>
whiskey on some corn flakes for breakfast, then saying 'Crime time!'  They <BR>
were out to hijack a ship...<BR>
<BR>
Anybody else remember this movie?<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn+ t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1543<BR>
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